CHOAS Report #1 - October 30, 2004

CHAOS is a new column for the Mechanical Reports. It will consist of horror (or even bad luck) stories of equipment and services encountered by our members as they travel the passenger and freight railroads in their cars. The object is to get you to post your stories of things that have gone wrong with your car (mechanical woes), the services provided, or things to look out for; and then to give us all your advice so that others can avoid similar problems, or otherwise tell us what the solution may be, if there is one.

It would be good to have first hand reports of all kinds of mechanical, electrical, and operating problems and solutions or workarounds. I could not think of a super name for the column, and settled, for the moment on CHAOS – Car Handling And Operating Snafu’s. It would probably be best for you to report the matter to any member of the Mechanical Committee first, and then we will edit it if necessary and ask questions if needed, before it is published. The members are Bart Barton, Eric Wilde, and Paul DeVerter. We look forward to your stories, and particularly your solutions.

BRAKES – CHANGING FROM DIRECT RELEASE TO GRADUATED RELEASE

This is from the Virginia City. The incident happened on the way back from the Missoula Convention in 2004. Wade Pellizzer reports:

"The Amtrak Mechanical at PDX changed my UC valve from direct to graduated, he loosened both the right and left sides. The right side was the wrong side, he wanted to relieve the pressure on the spring when he rotated the cap on the left, When he tried to put it back together the piston sleeve got caught on the piston and piston ring instead of sliding inside. Then when he tightened the cap (striping two of the bolts in the process) the piston was bent and the ring broken. Needless to say the brakes would not fully set or release. That little oops cost six days and $2200 dollars. The best solution is to do it your self or watch it being done to ensure it is done properly."

BRAKES – DISC BRAKE ROTORS

This is from Doug Ebert, and this incident happened this October to the Puget Sound. I have left it in question and answer format.

[Q] As I understand it the bolts for the disc on wheel set were loose/off/missing.

[A] True ... 12 out of 15 worked their way out on one disc on the wheel set closest to the "B" end; were all observed in place at CHI. Apparently, they all came out about the same time, as strange banging type noises started at slow speed about 30 minutes east of Havre. Strange whirring noise at speed. No noise when brakes applied (which probably pushed the entire assembly back together). Our inspection at Havre discovered the problem.

We made the decision to cut the car. Subsequently discovered all threads were OK and apparently not damaged, providing further evidence of some sort of simultaneous "working out" of bolts. One existing bolt of the three remaining was loose. When we left CHI, the angle cock to the PVs was not fully opened. This was discovered at MKE when excessive heat was observed from under the car. Jeff Marshall then opened the angle cock all the way and this incident was reported by us to Wilmington. We had been dragging the train all the way from CHI to MKE, problem resolved at MKE. This probably started the bolt-loosening event, but the bottom line problem was some sort of manufacturing defect of the wheel sets which were purchased brand new by Avalon. The manufacturer probably did not properly assemble and torque the bolts in manufacturing. Serious stuff.

They are looking for a wheel set. They had an OK to replace the bolts and move to Seattle. All was OK by Amtrak Mechanical until trumped by someone in Wilmington.

Found a wheel set in Livingston. Will be changed out tonight. I don't know if our repair was every approved officially. Mike Kelley, Ken Keeler, Wayne Yetter, BNSF in Havre, Jeff Marshall, and I were certain that re-installation of bolts torqued in accordance with the AAR specs was a safe field fix and we would then change the wheel set at OAK for investigation and permanent repair. We convinced someone at Wilmington who was subsequently overruled. We were planning to inspect the bolts at SPK and PDX.

[Q] My understanding is they wouldn't let them cut the truck out or cylinder out, etc. and refused to move them anywhere. Doug knows more.

[A] Cutting the truck or cylinder out would not have helped the problem. The disc was literally about to become "unglued." The problem had to be repaired before the car continued. It was solely our call which was correct.

The wheel set was manufactured by (not sure of spelling) ABC Nayko (could also be ABC Naco) delivered in January 2001 to Avalon. P.O. in late 2000. Sold by Nathan Harback. This company may have been bought out by Progress Rail.

[DeVerter] Thank you for the extensive report, Doug.

[Ebert] YOU'RE WELCOME.

[Q] Do you suppose that the excessive heat to the disk caused it to heat up and swell enough to overstretch the bolts, and then when it all cooled down, they started to unscrew?

'

[A] I SUSPECT THIS EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM, BUT IT STILL SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED, AS HOT DISCS ARE EXPECTED TO HAPPEN. I SUSPECT THE BOLTS WERE NOT PROPERLY TORQUED WHEN MANUFACTURED.

[Q] Was there any evidence of a safety wire in the bolts?

[A] THEY NO LONGER USE SAFETY WIRE AS THE NORM, THEY USE WHAT I BELIEVE ARE CALLED LOCKING PLATES WHICH MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PROPERLY INSTALLED, BUT THEY WERE INSTALLED.

[Q] Did Wilmington have any recollection of the same sort of thing happening before? Or with this manufacturer?

[A] THE ONLY OTHER PERSON I TALKED TO WHO HAD EVER HEARD OF THIS HAPPENING BEFORE WAS MIKE KELLY WHO SAID DEASY'S CAR HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM RECENTLY. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHERE HIS WHEEL CAME FROM.

[Q] What can we alert out members to look out for?

[A] I'M NOT SURE, BUT I INTEND TO TELL EVERYBODY I KNOW WITH DISC BRAKES TO MAKE A CAREFUL VISUAL INSPECTION. THIS SITUATION WAS DANGEROUS, WE'RE LUCKY WE CAUGHT IT. THE EARLIEST SYMPTOM WAS A VIBRATION AT CERTAIN SPEEDS, SIMILAR TO AN AUTOMOBILE WITH AN UNBALANCED TIRE. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT CAN OCCUR WITH A PERFECT SET OF WHEELS. I'D ASK DEASY WHAT HIS STORY IS. THE FACT THAT WE WERE IN AN UNUSUAL DISC HEAT UP PRIOR TO THE EVENT WOULD INDICATE THAT THIS SHOULD PERHAPS BE A TRIGGER FOR A BOLT INSPECTION ASAP, BUT THAT REALLY PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE HELPED US AND THAT IDEA COULD OPEN A CAN OF WORMS. I THINK WILMINGTON'S REQUIREMENT FOR A WHEEL CHANGE EVEN IF A BOLT COMES LOOSE IS EXTREME IF EN ROUTE AND ALL ELSE IS O.K. IT WOULD BE WORTH YOUR WHILE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH MIKE KELLY.

BRAKES – DISC BRAKE ROTORS

This is from Jack Deasy, reporting on a similar problem encountered in the Mount Vernon:

"In May 2003, prior to our departure on Amtrak train # 79 to Charlotte on the morning after the AAPRCO Washington Reception, Amtrak inspected Mount Vernon at WAS and found some of the bolts which attach a disc brake rotor to the hub of a wheel were missing or loose. Amtrak bad ordered the car and made the necessary repairs (bolt replacement/tightening) at Ivy City later that day. I seem to recall the bill was about $300. This was our first trip of 2003, only a few months and about 3,000 miles after Elton Miller had given the car a very thorough PC-1 annual inspection.In June 2004, while we were returning from a trip to Halifax, we had VIA's Montreal Maintenance Center turn some wheel sets on Mount Vernon to remove some shelling. A sharp eyed wheel truing machine operator noted that about half of the bolts which attach one disc brake rotor to the hub of a wheel were missing or loose (partially backed out). This defect was noted on a relatively new wheel set, purchased from Progress Rail and installed by Lancaster & Chester Railway in summer 2003. The car had received it's PC-1 annual inspection from Harold Weisinger himself about one month and 2,000 miles prior to the defect being spotted; in addition , the car had been carefully inspected by Via at the MMC six days earlier on our way to Halifax. VIA's MMC wheel shop said they were not authorized to make the repair by replacing the missing bolts and/or tightening the loose bolts; they said only a shop which assembles wheel sets (such as Progress Rail) was authorized to perform this task.

However, I was fortunate they had a spare wheel set, to Amtrak specs, on hand; they were willing to install it to solve this immediate safety problem and get me home. By another stroke of good luck, the wheel set to be installed and the wheel set to be removed were of identical 39/16 inch rim thickness. VIA's billing for this transaction was very fair -- they charged us 2.5 man hours labor to change out the wheel set. Rather than billing me for the material cost of the newly installed wheel set; they billed me for the cost of having an outside shop repair my old wheel set to "ready for installation" status plus the transportation between the MMC and the wheel contractor's shop. In further praise of Via, I must point out that they did this work on a Friday evening, allowing Mount Vernon to continue to be occupied by owners, crew and guests, inside their wheel shop; they even allowed me to run our diesel generator inside the wheel shop so that our Chef John Mickey would have power to prepare and serve our dinner. We made our scheduled next morning departure on The Adirondack. Prior to our departure for the Bennett Levin "Buckeye Limited" special train in late July 2004, I asked Morristown & Erie Railway (where we store Mount Vernon) to inspect the mounting bolts on all 8 of Mount Vernon's disc brake rotors. They found none of the bolts were missing or loose, but noted some bolts did not have the locking tabs turned up to prevent the bolts from backing out. They turned up the locking tabs, where necessary, to prevent the bolts from backing out.

In mid-September 2004, prior to a cross country charter of 7000 plus miles, Morristown & Erie Railway once again inspected the mounting bolts along with the other items under the car. M&E Railway CMO Chuck Jensen reported all things were as they should be; no bolt or other problems. It is my understanding that these bolts, which attach a disc brake rotor to a wheel hub, are supposed to be secured by some type of locking wire or locking tab/collar. .If you look at Marty McDonough's article "Passenger Car Trucks ... Disc Brake Equipped" published in Private Varnish issue # 6 in 1986 (available in PDF format on the AAPRCO members website), you will see there is some mention of these bolts; there is a photo where you can see the mounting bolts inside the disc brake rotor.

I do not know what caused this problem on two separate wheel sets about a year apart, but I will speculate it was a quality assurance defect at the shop(s) which assembled the wheel sets. I hope we have now slayed that dragon."

BRAKES – DISC BRAKE ROTORS – updated November 10, 2004

The problem raised by Doug Ebert and Jack Deasy relating to the loose bolts on Disc Brake Rotors was relayed to the CMO of Amtrak, Vince Nesci, and here is his response:

"We did have a number of loose discs on our Heritage cars a few years ago. Upon our investigation, it was determined that some of the locking plates were not properly bent and the mounting bolts were installed with an impact gun and not checked with a torque wrench. Amtrak shop procedures have been changed to include the use of a torque wrench and to put torque marks on the bolt heads and the adjacent disc surface to indicate bolt movement, if any occurs.

This took place a couple of years ago and I am not aware of any further problems on our wheels since then. I will also ask Harold Weisinger to provide his insight on this subject should he have any other knowledge of similar problems."

So, it appears the problem is solved by using a torque wrench to tighten the bolts, and making certain the locking plate tabs are properly bent up. I (Paul DeVerter) got no response on how to move the car safely to the next repair station, and maybe will get that from Harold Weisinger.

Paul L. DeVerter II