Subject: Private Car Technical Committee, Core Meeting, Chicago (9/21/00)
Here are some more meeting notes that need to go in the Mech Officer's Reports on the WWW site.
There are two different committees represented. The "core" committee is designed for the overview, and the minutes for this first meeting are on the WWW site under my mechanical reports. This meeting was held in Houston on June 29, 2000. The second "core" meeting was held in Washington on September 21, 2000, and those minutes are attached to Weisinger's e-mail. The working committee has held only one meeting, that being in Chicago on August 24, 2000, and the minutes are also attached. The second working meeting was scheduled for Los Angeles on Nov 15, and was canceled by Weisinger, so the next meeting will be held in Bradenton in conjunction with the RPCA convention. Its purpose is to go over the documents used in the inspection process by Amtrak, and recommend changes in rules and procedure. The first working committee meeting was mostly orientation, and substance should start coming with the next meeting.
Paul DeVerter II
AMTRAK CORPORATE EQUIPMENT ENGINEERING
AND MECHANICAL DEPARTMENT
15 South Poplar Street Wilmington, DE 19801
MEMORANDUM
DATE: September 21, 2000
TO: PVTC Distribution
FROM: H. B. Weisinger
Senior Engineer, Private Cars
Fax: ATS: 734-2096
Phone: ATS: 734-2066
SUBJECT: Private Car Technical Committee, Core Meeting, Washington
The meeting was held at the Capitol Hill Suites.
Attending were:
Bart Barton
Paul DeVerter
Diane Elliott
Kevin Scott
Harold Weisinger
The first part we discussed items from the last meeting and expanded the topics.
3. Electrical
3a. Electrical Standards
¨ We should determine if the NEC code is applicable.
¨ We should determine which parts of the NEC code are applicable.
¨ Determine how far Amtrak will inspect into the electrical system.
¨ Requirements for junction boxes
3b. Electrical lockers
PV practice for electrical lockers.
¨ PVTC recommends that Amtrak stop inspecting at the 480v HEP Breaker.
¨ If an air or water line runs through the e locker should it be shrouded and with what?
¨ Does Amtrak have a requirement for electrical locker construction?
3c. Truck Conduit
Can the conduit over the trucks be considered a rock shield and are other methods of shielding acceptable.
3d. Relief from the installation of 27 Pin Communication system.
Both AAPRCO and RPCA have expressed a strong interest in Relief from the installation of 27 Pin Communication system. They sight the constant non-application of the comm cables by Amtrak forces. Relief from the aforementioned item would allow new car owners to rebuild their cars at a savings of over $5000 minimum. This money could be better spent on installing a 480V HEP system, which costs at least $30,000.
The HEP is commonly used when running on Amtrak trains except when running at the rear of the train behind express cars. HEP is also used, and is required in most stations. The 27 pin comm lines are not used in most trains outside the NEC and not used at stations.
PRO
¨ Reduction in initial rebuild costs for new car owner.
¨ Reduced chance of structural modifications if no 27 Comm receptacles.
¨ Increased number of new Private Cars due to lower initial costs.
¨ PV’s have never been required to use trainline PA systems.
¨ All PV’s have railroad radio’s for emergency use.
¨ Increasing number of PV’s running behind express cars.
CON
¨ Amtrak would have to filter cars from NEC trains, which use com lines between train set and locomotive. This would be a necessity when PV’s are moved at head end of train. This could be done by either a non “A”clearance (NEC) (not preffered) or a note in the DUR Arrow field to alert Charter Operations to restrictions.
¨ No use on Push Pull trains that require 27 pin comm line and MU line.
¨ Cars will be denied service if comm lines required.
3e. Train Line Complete (TLC) inspection
Inspectors will annually test TLC circuit. PC-1 inspection.
3f. Phase Balance test
¨ Phase balance will be performed at PC-2 and when substantial new electrical equipment is added to car.
¨ Would Amtrak consider a 15% imbalance per phase?
¨ Can owner submit a wiring diagram in place of physical test?
3g. Megohm Test
¨ Megohm test will be performed at PC-2 and PC-2a inspections or after repairs to HEP cables or connectors.
¨ Hi-Pot test will no longer be used to test insulation of 480v cables.
3h. Welding of conduits
¨ Can conduit be welded to car body. (Everybody says that Ed Laird told them it was ok).
4. Diaphragms and Buffer Plates
¨ Diaphragms must be installed on all cars with the exception of the observation ends of observation cars and business cars. Observation ends means blunt end or round end. Pass through cars must have a diaphragm.
¨ Diaphragms should be Superliner compatible. Cars with incompatible diaphragms will not be permitted to operate on Superliner equipped trains except at the discretion of the operating department.
¨ Private Car owners are strongly urged to use diaphragms compatible with Superliner equipment.
¨ Buffer plates must be installed on all cars, including business cars. Blunt end and round end cars will not be required to install them if not part of the design. Cars converted to business cars will be required to install buffers.
Item for core group discussion
1. PV’s should only have to do what Amtrak does.
ie. End sheet handholds, pointing up or down, buffer plate angle plates, welded conduit, HEP placement, dumping toilets, venting main reservoir cocks.
2. Where does the Amtrak inspection end? Refer to Section 3
3. Attitude. Inspectors should be assisting owners rather than bad ordering cars.
4. AAR vs. Amtrak service limits: ie. Wheel rim thickness and disc thickness.
Shop Movements for non certified cars
Amtrak will assist car owners in moving a non certified car to a car shop for restoration to Amtrak service. Amtrak will access the request on a per case. The cars will require an inspection for movement. The equivalent of a PC-1 annual inspection will be performed. An in date COT&S is required. Only “ E” or better couplers will be accepted. Plain bearings will not be accepted. A list of repairs will be generated for the car owner to address before movement. Movement will be at Amtrak’s sole discretion and convenience. The owner will be responsible for all inspection costs and transportation costs. Inspection costs will be settled with the Private Car Office and Transportation costs with the Charter Operations department. Shop moves are limited to 2 riders. The rate for movement will be $2.00 per mile plus additional transportation charges.
Action Items and assignments:
Ask Jim Hamilton about insurance requirements for one time shop move
Bart Barton and Mike Ponicki will re write the PC-2, PC-2a and PC-1 forms
Bryan Reese will assemble the brake section. Harold Weisinger has tentative agreement from Henry Christie of the American Brake Assoc. to use the Christie-Weiler Brake paper on Private Cars.
Mike Kelly will submit an outline for use and maintenance of Genomotors and Spicer Drives.
HBW will submit questions for Dick Bruss for electrical section, G.P.Binns on mechanical issues, G.A.Gagrin for brake issues.
HBW to take care of carbody issues.
HBW to assemble list of facility managers
The next proposed date for the Tech committee is November 15 in Los Angeles. Bryan Reese will arrange for a meeting room and Bar-b-que at his house.
Attending the November 15 meeting will be:
Bart Barton, AAPRCO car owner
Paul DeVerter, AAPRCO CMO
Rod Fishburn, AAPRCO car owner, industry consultant
Mike Ponicki, Amtrak, Manufacturing Engineer, PV’s
Bryan Reese, Amtrak, HR Brake Instructor
Harold Weisinger, Amtrak, Senior Engineer, PV’s
Pat Egan, Amtrak retired, Private PV inspector, industry consultant
Brad Black, RPCA car owner, Private PV inspector, industry consultant
The following meeting will be at the RPCA convention in Bradenton, FL before the Martin Luther King holiday weekend, on Thursday January 11, 2001.
Distribution List
Bart Barton
Paul DeVerter
Diane Elliott
Mike Ponicki
Kevin Scott
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